DAVE DAVIES, HOST:
That is FRESH AIR. I am Dave Davies. Right this moment we bear in mind singer-songwriter and actor Kris Kristofferson. He died Saturday on the age of 88. He was identified for his evocative songwriting. This is a sampling.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “ME AND BOBBY MCGEE”)
JANIS JOPLIN: (Singing) I pulled my harpoon out of my soiled, pink bandana. I used to be taking part in gentle whereas Bobby sang the blues. Windshield wipers slapping time, I used to be holding Bobby’s hand in mine. We sang each tune that driver knew. Yeah. Freedom is simply one other phrase for nothing left to lose. Nothing do not imply nothing, honey, if it ain’t…
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “SUNDAY MORNING COMING DOWN”)
JOHNNY CASH: (Singing) On a Sunday morning sidewalk, I am wishing, Lord, that I used to be stoned ‘trigger there’s one thing in a Sunday that makes the physique really feel alone.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “HELP ME MAKE IT THROUGH THE NIGHT”)
SAMMI SMITH: (Singing) Come and lay down by my facet until the early morning mild. All I am taking is your time. Assist me make it via the night time. I do not care what’s proper or incorrect.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “THE PILGRIM: CHAPTER 33”)
KRIS KRISTOFFERSON: (Singing) He is a poet. He is a picker. He is a prophet. He is a pusher. He is a pilgrim and a preacher and an issue when he is stoned. He is a strolling contradiction, partly reality and partly fiction, taking each incorrect route on his lonely manner again residence.
DAVIES: Some famous songs by Kris Kristofferson. Artwork critic Christine Arnold as soon as wrote of Kristofferson, he is the Marlboro Man with a young coronary heart. Kristofferson’s life took many colourful turns. Born in Brownsville, Texas, in a army household, he grew to become a promising boxer in his 20s, then a Rhodes scholar in England and later a U.S. Military Rangers helicopter pilot in Germany. He turned down an appointment to show literature at West Level to take an opportunity at songwriting.
Kristofferson went to Nashville within the ’60s, and his first job within the music business was working as a janitor at Columbia Data. There he met Johnny Money, who grew to become his good pal, recorded songs Kristofferson had written and satisfied him to begin recording himself. Kristofferson’s rugged attractiveness and straightforward method made him a pure for movies. He acted in additional than 50 motion pictures, together with Martin Scorsese’s “Alice Would not Reside Right here Anymore,” John Sayles’ “Lone Star” and the 1976 remake of “A Star Is Born” reverse Barbara Streisand.
Within the Eighties, he was a part of the outlaw nation supergroup that included Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson and Johnny Money. Kristofferson was inducted into the Songwriters Corridor of Fame in 1985 and the Nation Music Corridor of Fame in 2004. Terry spoke with Kris Kristofferson in 1999. On the time, he’d launched an album titled “The Austin Periods,” which included new variations of his best-known older songs. They started with the tune “Me And Bobby McGee.”
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “ME AND BOBBY MCGEE”)
KRISTOFFERSON: (Singing) Busted flat in Baton Rouge – heading for the trains, feeling practically light as my denims. Bobby thumbed a diesel down simply earlier than it rained – took us all the best way to New Orleans. I pulled my harpoon out of my soiled, pink bandana. I used to be blowing unhappy whereas Bobby sang the blues. With them windshield wipers slapping time and Bobby clapping fingers, we lastly sang up each tune that driver knew. Freedom’s simply one other phrase for nothing left to lose. Nothing ain’t price nothing, however it’s free. Feeling good was simple, Lord, when Bobby sang the blues. Feeling good was adequate for me, adequate for me and Bobby McGee.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
TERRY GROSS: Kris Kristofferson, welcome to FRESH AIR.
KRISTOFFERSON: Thanks, Terry.
GROSS: Effectively, let me ask you slightly bit in regards to the tune that we simply heard, “Me And Bobby McGee.” What first impressed that tune?
KRISTOFFERSON: Fred Foster, who owned Monument Data and Mix known as me up, mentioned he had a tune title for me. It was “Me And Bobbie McKee.” I assumed he mentioned McGee, however truly, there was a lady named Bobbie McKee, who was Boudleaux Bryant’s secretary, and so they have been in the identical constructing.
GROSS: Boudleaux Bryant wrote plenty of songs for The Everly Brothers.
KRISTOFFERSON: Sure, he did. You are proper on. And anyway, he mentioned, the hook is Bobbie McKee is a she, you already know? And I assumed that sounded just like the worst thought I might ever heard of. However I wished to write down for – write one thing for him. I had not had something recorded since I might gone to work for his firm. And so I got down to write the tune and hid from him for just a few months. And I went again into the – our studio up there at Mix with Billy Swan and made a demo of it. And everyone preferred the tune.
GROSS: Essentially the most well-known line from the tune is, freedom’s simply one other phrase for nothing left to lose. What impressed that line?
KRISTOFFERSON: Effectively, that is what the tune was actually about to me – was the double-edged sword, you already know, that freedom is. And after I wrote that, a few of my songwriter mates in Nashville instructed me to take it out of the tune, mentioned it was – that it did not match, that the remainder of the imagery was so actual and concrete that it was misplaced to place slightly philosophical line in there.
GROSS: Inform me if I bear in mind appropriately. Did you’ve got a home that burned down at in regards to the time you wrote this tune?
KRISTOFFERSON: No. No. I had – I let you know what I had. I used to be residing in a condemned constructing on the time, and, you already know, the factor value me, I feel, $50 a month. And any person had damaged into it through the week that I used to be down within the Gulf of Mexico and trashed the place and stole what little I needed to steal. I bear in mind it was a really liberating feeling to me as a result of all the pieces was gone, and there was nowhere to go however up. I had additionally alienated my household on the time. My spouse had left me, and I used to be separated, you already know, from my youngsters. And I feel I might been disowned by my dad and mom by that point. And it was fairly liberating not having any expectations or something to reside as much as.
GROSS: How did Janis Joplin find yourself recording this tune?
KRISTOFFERSON: Bobby Neuwirth taught Janis the tune, I imagine, and I feel he’d heard it when Roger Miller had recorded it. I first heard that she had sung the tune after I got here again from – I might been down in Peru making a film with Dennis Hopper singing “Bob McGee,” as a matter of truth, within the movie. And any person instructed me she had sung it in a live performance. I feel it was in Nashville. After which later, Bobby launched me to her, and we lived out of her home for a couple of month or so. And we grew to become shut mates, however I by no means did hear her sing it. I by no means heard her tape of it until the day after she died.
DAVIES: Kris Kristofferson talking with Terry Gross, recorded in 1999. We’ll hear extra after a break. That is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF RODNEY CROWELL SONG, “COME SUNDOWN”)
DAVIES: That is FRESH AIR. We’re remembering singer-songwriter and actor Kris Kristofferson by listening again to his 1999 interview. He died on Saturday.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
GROSS: What yr did you first get to Nashville, and what was it like if you received there?
KRISTOFFERSON: I first went there in June of 1965 and was on my manner again from a three-year tour within the Military in Germany – and was on my solution to the profession course down at Fort Benning and from there to supposedly to show English, literature, at West Level. And since my army obligation was already fulfilled, I made a decision I used to be going to get out of the Military and be a songwriter. I had spent a few weeks there simply on tour. I imply, simply, you already know, I used to be on depart and received proven round to among the songwriter classes and received a glimpse of the life. I’ve all the time felt like I used to be actually fortunate to have been uncovered to Nashville at the moment as a result of I am positive it is completely different now.
GROSS: There should’ve been some sort of life-changing thought that occurred to you, because you’d been on this army profession monitor. Your father had been a army profession man. Was it a sudden change of coronary heart or what that made you assume I am not going to show at West Level, I’ll strive writing songs in Nashville?
KRISTOFFERSON: Effectively, I had by no means meant to make the army a profession or the tutorial life. I all the time thought that I might – I hoped that I might be a author and be capable to have a artistic life, you already know? After which, properly, after I graduated from faculty – I went to Oxford for a few years, after which I went within the army for nearly 5 years. And by that point, I had a household and, you already know, a spouse and a daughter. And I feel I kind of despaired of ever making my residing as an artist till I went to Nashville. I went there as a result of in my final yr within the Military, or in Germany, I fashioned a band and began writing songs once more. I might been writing songs all my life however began actually escaping into it over the past yr I used to be over there in Germany – and went to Nashville to attempt to pedal the songs.
After which after I received there, it was so completely different from any life that I might been in earlier than, simply hanging out with these individuals who stayed up for 3 or 4 days at a time, you already know, and nights and have been writing songs on a regular basis. I feel I wrote 4 songs through the first week I used to be there. And it was simply so thrilling to me. It was like a lifeboat, you already know? It was like my salvation.
GROSS: How did you begin making motion pictures? Did you assume, someday, I’ll act?
KRISTOFFERSON: After I began performing my very own songs, the primary place I ever performed was on the Troubadour membership in Los Angeles. It was sort of a hangout like The Bitter Finish in New York. And I feel on the time there was extra individuals in search of new blood as a result of I received plenty of presents simply off of performing there. And finally, Harry Dean Stanton gave me a script. I did not even know he was an actor on the time (laughter). I assumed he simply sang within the bar there on the Troubadour. However he helped me do a display screen check for a movie that was known as “Cisco Pike.” And I received to place my music in it. And I used to be the lead in it, in a movie with Gene Hackman and Karen Black and Harry Dean. And I simply went on from there.
GROSS: Effectively, I might like to shut with one other tune out of your new CD, “The Austin Periods.” And it is a tune known as “The Pilgrim: Chapter 33.” Now, this tune is quoted in “Taxi Driver.” The Cybill Shepherd character, Betsy, buys the document for Travis, the taxi driver performed by Robert De Niro. And she or he says that he reminds her of the character within the tune, and she or he quotes the road, he is a strolling contradiction, partly reality and partly fiction. How did the tune find yourself in “Taxi Driver”?
KRISTOFFERSON: I do not know. I all the time felt like that was the nicest factor that Marty Scorsese ever did to me, you already know?
GROSS: I assume you had already labored with him in “Alice Would not Reside Right here Anymore.”
KRISTOFFERSON: I labored – yeah. Yeah, however I did not realize it was going to be in that one. And, God, he had – there’s De Niro holding up my album.
GROSS: (Laughter).
KRISTOFFERSON: And so they’re quoting me like Bob Dylan or one thing. It was – I nonetheless assume that is one of many sweetest issues I’ve ever seen anyone do for anyone within the enterprise.
GROSS: And who did you write the tune about?
KRISTOFFERSON: Effectively, I wrote it about myself and about plenty of mates of mine that I assumed have been, you already know – Ramblin’ Jack Elliott, Chris Gantry and Johnny Money and everyone I knew on the time. And plenty of us have been 33 on the time. That is why it is known as “Chapter 33” – and Dennis Hopper. I bear in mind after we have been down in Peru, each time that you’d inform any person you have been 33 years outdated, they’d say, oh, the age of Christ. In order that kind of match the sample of it.
GROSS: So have been you referring in any respect to the way you and lots of people you knew have been sort of self-invented?
KRISTOFFERSON: Ooh, sure, sure – partly reality and partly fiction. You already know, I’ve all the time felt that I and lots of the individuals I love are figments of our personal creativeness. I all the time felt that Willie Nelson, Muhammad Ali have been notably profitable at that, at imagining themselves and residing as much as what they imagined themselves to be.
GROSS: And also you’re…
KRISTOFFERSON: I bear in mind after I first noticed Muhammad Ali, he was Cassius Clay. He was slightly, skinny, mild heavyweight over in Rome, and he was telling everyone he was going to be the most important, the perfect. You already know, he was the following Joe Louis. And he imagined himself proper up into that.
GROSS: Do you’re feeling you probably did that, too?
KRISTOFFERSON: I feel I did. After I assume again to after I first was writing my first songs – you already know, like, after I was 11 years outdated, down in Brownsville, Texas – I feel that I imagined myself into a reasonably full life after that. I used to be definitely not outfitted by God to be a soccer participant, however I received to be one. And I received to be a ranger and a paratrooper and a helicopter pilot, you already know, and a boxer and plenty of issues that I do not assume I used to be constructed to do. I simply imagined them.
GROSS: Kris Kristofferson. His new CD, “The Austin Periods,” options new variations of his best-known songs, together with the tune that is quoted in “Taxi Driver.”
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, “TAXI DRIVER”)
ROBERT DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) You wish to go to a film with me?
CYBILL SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) I’ve to return to work now.
DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) I do not imply now. I imply, like, one other time, although.
SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) Certain. You already know what you remind me of?
DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) What?
SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) That tune by Kris Kristofferson.
DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) Who’s that?
SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) The songwriter. He is a prophet and a pusher, partly reality, partly fiction, a strolling contradiction.
DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) You saying that about me?
SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) Who else would I be speaking about?
DE NIRO: (As Travis Bickle) I am no pusher. I by no means have pushed.
SHEPHERD: (As Betsy) No, no, simply the half in regards to the contradiction. You might be that.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “THE PILGRIM: CHAPTER 33”)
KRISTOFFERSON: (Singing) He is a idiot, and he is a liar. He is a prophet. He is a dreamer. He is a pilgrim and a preacher and an issue when he is stoned. He is a strolling contradiction, partly true, largely fiction, choosing out the incorrect route on his lonely manner again residence.
DAVIES: Kris Kristofferson on his tune “The Pilgrim: Chapter 33.” He spoke with Terry Gross in 1999. He died Saturday on the age of 88. Developing, John Powers opinions the brand new Apple TV+ movie “Wolfs,” starring George Clooney and Brad Pitt. That is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF RAMSEY LEWIS TRIO’S “THE IN CROWD”)
Copyright © 2024 NPR. All rights reserved. Go to our web site phrases of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for additional info.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This textual content might not be in its remaining kind and could also be up to date or revised sooner or later. Accuracy and availability could differ. The authoritative document of NPR’s programming is the audio document.
