“Creation and destruction, you do not simply get creation,” Dacus tells NPR. “Every part comes at a price, in a manner.”
Album artwork by Will St. John
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Album artwork by Will St. John
When boygenius shaped as a supergroup again in 2018, the transfer was a shock. Members Lucy Dacus, Phoebe Bridgers and Julien Baker all had profitable solo careers as rising singer-songwriters, however collectively they have been a completely new drive. The group’s debut album, the document, acquired three Grammys and wildly exceeded the band’s expectations.
However lots has modified since the document dropped, particularly for Dacus, whose fourth solo album Without end Is a Feeling comes out this Friday. The album is an bold departure from her typical indie rock sound, choosing lush strings and instrumentation. It is also an especially private album, chronicling the artist’s more and more extra mature experiences with love and heartbreak.
Dacus talks to Morning Version‘s Michel Martin about her songwriting decisions on Without end Is a Feeling, why writing poetry is nothing like writing music and the way forward for boygenius.
This interview has been edited for size and readability.
Michel Martin: You skilled an unlimited success together with your trio, boygenius. That is you and fellow singer-songwriters Phoebe Bridgers and Julien Baker. The album received three Grammys. I do know that is your fourth album, however do you are feeling any strain to repeat that success with this album?
Lucy Dacus: Mainly, no, I do not suppose I can repeat any of that. It appears like a considered one of one, fluke expertise. [Laughs] A cheerful fluke. However that is not giving a lot credit score to the music, I do suppose that we did a great job. However yeah, possibly I personally do not have these targets, however possibly different individuals do. You possibly can’t produce other individuals’s targets matter to you that a lot.
Within the promotional materials that the label sends out, there is a quote from you concerning the creation of this album. It actually sort of caught me up brief. It says, “you need to destroy issues so as to create issues. And I did destroy a very stunning life.” Are you able to share? What are we speaking about right here?
Gosh, it sounds so dramatic out of context. Generally mates might be like, bear in mind if you stated this? I am like, oh, my gosh, I am so dramatic. But it surely’s true — identical dichotomy with development and decay. Like there is no such thing as a rising with out decay and that cycle occurring. So creation and destruction, you do not simply get creation. Every part comes at a price, in a manner. And I am pleased to report I am in a life that I actually love and cherish, however I needed to, you realize, shed one other life that I actually liked and cherish so as to be right here. It was simply the need of experiencing one thing totally different that motivated me.
Does that imply doing this album by yourself, or is there extra to it?
The album tracks just a few cases of falling in love, just a few cases of falling out of affection. I imply, by way of boygenius, that felt like an enormous change. I moved throughout the nation — I am from Richmond, Virginia, close to the place you might be proper now — after which lived in Philly. And now I am dwelling in LA, which feels so totally different. I feel if you transfer, you’ll be able to’t conflate your id with the place you have at all times been. I felt it was simpler to see who I’m in an unfamiliar place. The best way I made this document was additionally very totally different. I really feel like each time I make one thing, I’ve to relearn tips on how to do it.
I’ve to say, the sound of this album, fairly just a few of the songs are very lush. We hear strings. We hear harpists. Going into the recording, what gave you the perception into the way you wished this document to sound?
Effectively, I used to be writing the songs and I seen that they have been very heartful. They’re love songs, principally. I used to be simply interested by how most artwork by way of time has been motivated by love, so it isn’t prefer it’s new materials. So whereas I used to be recording, I used to be simply interested by antiquity, each sonically and visually. That is why I just like the oil portray for the album cowl and taking part in these museum reveals earlier than I correctly go on tour. And sonically, too, having a harpist and strings gamers and a celesta, that is a cool instrument. I feel we put some harpsichord on it as nicely. Simply sort of harkening again to some older sounds. I simply thought that might make sense.
I need to speak about “Ankles.” I’ve so many questions. This tune hit me on so many alternative ranges. Truly, quite a lot of your songs on this album hit me on all these totally different ranges. What impressed that tune?
It is fairly reduce and dry with the lyricism identical to, okay, so I would like you, however I am unable to have you ever. So I simply have to consider you and fake to be happy with that alone. So it is sort of this playful frustration and identical to the stress of wanting anyone. It is undoubtedly extra lusty than I typically am.
Effectively it’s totally lusty however it’s playful, but in addition the lyrics are so hanging. Right here, for instance: “Agent of Chaos, Angel of Dying, considered one of three historic fates taking part in together with your scissors once more. How fortunate are we to have a lot to lose?” That is very highly effective. It is dramatic, however sonically it is so enjoyable. Do not get me began on the music video, which is hilarious. How about you describe it with out giving all of it away.
I shot this video in Paris with a good friend, [the actress] Havana Rose Lu. And Havana is straitlaced in a swimsuit and trying to find me finds me at this, morning after, loopy social gathering on a mattress on the ground, bare with a bunch of individuals. After which takes me by way of the streets of Paris again to the place I belong.
You are on this beautiful, fabulous costume, and simply getting the costume by way of the streets is its personal journey.
I could not slot in doorways. We needed to go in an elevator as soon as and nobody may include me, my costume took up the complete elevator. And once more — lush craftsmanship. That is the opposite factor, I have been eager to make use of individuals who have very extremely expert skills. I really feel like that does not occur as a lot anymore. Simply watching individuals make issues by hand to such a wonderful diploma, I wished to get a few of that round me.
But in addition the craftsmanship of your lyrics. It made me marvel, do you additionally write poetry? Does your writing stay in different places apart from tune?
It is fascinating, I’ve by way of time and with music, I am not judgmental of myself in any respect. It simply is what it’s. It comes sort of painlessly. Perhaps it is painful upon reflecting and being like, oh, that reminiscence is painful. However writing feels fairly straightforward. Poetry feels tough and ugly. Like my poetry, I am going to learn it and I will be like, that is both unhealthy or even when it is good it makes me really feel unhealthy. Perhaps as a result of music has, typically, meter and rhyme. It does not should, however there’s considerably of a construction in music, whereas poetry is like the whole lot I am unable to match, the whole lot that’s too spiky for me to suit wherever.
One of many causes I introduced up the video for “Ankles” is that I additionally love the video for “Finest Guess.” I’ve so many questions on that, it expresses an exquisite sentiment: “I like your physique. I like your thoughts. They’ll change. So will mine. However you are my greatest guess on the future.”
I’ve to inform you that it virtually introduced me to tears. Simply because, you realize, you are so younger. And you’d haven’t any manner of realizing that after a really lengthy relationship, that’s one thing that you simply confront. I imply, individuals get sick, proper? Their our bodies change. Issues occur. And but you’ll be able to nonetheless [say] it is your greatest wager. I simply discovered myself asking — forgive me, I hope I am not patronizing you — however I simply questioned how anyone your age would have an perception like that. The place did that come from?
This appears like an enormous praise. I feel I chuckle as a result of my dad asks me this on a regular basis. He is like, it took me, you realize, a long time longer than you to comprehend that, how did this occur? You already know, it is perhaps as a result of I learn lots. I have never actually considered this, however in answering this query it’d simply be as a result of I am studying a number of views on a regular basis. And in addition in books, there’s really period and breadth that you could’t match into music more often than not. Films typically, you’ll be able to discover a breadth of time or it is faked with make-up. Seeing characters change over time, you realize that occurs with individuals, however you are in actual time with them. Whereas in a single e-book, seeing how individuals change to one another and the way feelings change — I suppose that is only a lesson that bought by way of to me from books.
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Going again to the video, it is gotten a number of traction on-line, significantly in queer areas. You need to describe it?
So the thought was, you realize, that is the primary love tune I’ve written the place I really use feminine pronouns. Like I say, you might be “my lady” within the tune, which feels distinctive. I used to be like, possibly I am going to simply lean into that and have like a bachelor social gathering for me the place I am on this scorching swimsuit. The references have been sort of like nineties Calvin Klein advertisements.
The purpose wasn’t to characterize lesbianism. It wasn’t to characterize butchdom. However there are a number of mascs within the video. You already know, there’s a number of girls and non-binary individuals. We’ve got a trans man within the group and there is a few individuals who have been like, can I showcase my high surgical procedure scars? And it is like, completely. It was a very stunning day for everyone concerned and all people within the video. A few of them are my mates, like E.R. Fightmaster, Naomi McPherson from MUNA, Towa Chook, Cara Delevingne, which was cool for me as a result of she was one of many first lesbians I knew about.
After which I did this contest on TikTok for individuals to use. The metrics have been if you’re easy or suave or can fake to be, possibly you are masc — as a result of I used to be attempting to get individuals who can be snug in a swimsuit and cozy trying in a digicam. It was a large web. After which the fires occurred in LA and so we needed to put it collectively tremendous shortly and we narrowed down all of the entries to those that we thought have been in LA from their profiles.
Was it as enjoyable because it regarded? I imply, it regarded prefer it was so enjoyable.
It was enjoyable in a deep manner. Have you learnt what I imply? Do you ever have an evening that is so enjoyable that you simply really feel prefer it hit in your soul? Like individuals have been having enjoyable and like, crying? Folks have been like, I’ve by no means been in an area the place I felt this snug. I’ve by no means been in a position to utterly loosen up my physique in an area with individuals simply because being masc typically you are a rarity in sure areas.
Simply forgive me, however by masc, what do you imply — masculine presenting?
Yeah, masculine presenting. I think about myself superfluid. There’s some instances the place I really feel very boy after which there’s different days the place I really feel very lady. After which many days the place I really feel like neither. In “Ankles” I am on this robe and “Finest Guess” I am in these fits. I like with the ability to present individuals the entire gamut of how I personally prefer to characterize.
Earlier than we allow you to go, the boygenius mission made lots of people very pleased. I personally can attest that my daughter was obsessive about that album. So I did need to ask when you suppose that you simply would possibly get collectively for an additional album or one other mission?
There are not any plans. I feel we’ve got a number of hanging out to do earlier than we even speak about that. We determined originally of boygenius we might put in a single 12 months simply to guard our friendship. As a result of if you’re always commodifying your relationship, it could actually begin to grow to be a product and never simply the fact of your life. So that is what we have been doing since boygenius is simply hanging out and principally detoxing from being, like, viable. So there are not any plans, however boygenius lives in our hearts.
This audio story was edited by Phil Harrell and produced by Julie Depenbrock.